Recruiting Firm Mary-Margaret.com Talks to GameZone about the Women’s Game Conference, how to Break into the Game Industry and More

by Louis Bedigian

“Encouraging women to be in the game industry means encouraging women to play video games.”

You’ve got skills.  You think you’re really tight.  You can program with the best of ‘em and model 3D characters like it’s nobody’s business.  But for some reason or other you can’t get a job.  What to do?

Well, you could go back to playing Grand Theft Auto 3.  It won’t help you bring home the bacon, but it sure is fun.  Or you could get in touch with Mary-Margaret.com, a recruiting firm dedicated to filling jobs in the entertainment industry. 

Mary-Margaret.com is a proud sponsor of the upcoming Women’s Game Conference.  Robin McShaffry, co-founder of Mary-Margaret.com, will be speaking at the show, along with Sheri Graner Ray, Mia Consalvo, Ellen Beeman, Laura Fryer, and Kathy Schoback.

Our Spotlight on Women in Gaming wouldn’t be very bright if we didn’t continue to shine the light on the game industry’s most important women.  That’s why we got together with the founders of Mary-Margaret.com, Mary Margaret Walker and Robin McShaffry.

Start by introducing yourselves and your recruitment agency to our readers:
 

Mary Margaret Walker: I'm Mary Margaret Walker and I co-founded Mary-Margaret.com with Robin McShaffry in 1996.  We have been recruiting for the last eight years filling every kind of position in the game industry: in product development, legal, marketing, sales, pretty much everything that works in the game industry.

Robin McShaffry: If it works at a game company we can do it.  I came out of marketing at Origin Systems.  I worked there for four years and I marketed everything from System Shock to Ultima Online.  In fact, working on Ultima Online was probably one of the best and most fun things I did while I was in that job.  It was a hoot to be right out on the cutting edge of something brand-new for the industry like Ultima Online.  It was a very exciting job; I really enjoyed working at Origin.  When Mary Margaret was forming Mary-Margaret.com, she pretty much grabbed me by the wrist and said, "Come 'on along you're gonna do this with me."  And I said okay.  So we've been having a really good time doing this.

Mary Margaret: And I should also tell you a little bit about my background.  Prior to starting the recruiting firm I worked at Origin Systems and worked on Ultima 7, Serpent Isle and Ultima Underworld.  While still at Origin Systems I started the HR department., In 1992 I moved on to the 3DO Company in California where I managed all the projects in development during the four years that I was there. In 1996 I left 3DO and started this firm.
 

Besides being a sponsor, how are you involved with the Women's Game Conference?
 

Mary Margaret: One of our recruiters, Fiona Cherbak is the chairperson for the newly formed communications committee for the Women's Game Conference.  Fiona is securing the support of individuals in the industry with an interest in supporting women in games.  Robin is also going to be on a panel at the conference.
 

Robin: Fiona and I will be there to field questions and so forth.  I'm really looking forward to being there. We are very excited to be participating in the first show if its kind!

When I interviewed Sheri Graner Ray, she talked about how publishers are having a hard time finding women to hire.  They'll get 150 resumes and only three of them are from women.  Have you had similar problems?

Mary Margaret: Well, I'm not sure if I would call it a problem because we don't specifically look for women, we look for the best person to do the job.  I think it's more of a personnel issue that there aren't very many women in the industry. That's why we're interested in getting involved with the conference.

When I worked at Origin I was one of maybe four women in product development, a department that had about a hundred people in it.  When I was at 3DO there were a few more women in product development but there were very few female engineers.  Finding female engineers has always been difficult.  However, our clients, though they want diversity, don’t ask us for female candidates.
 

Robin: Ethically it's wonderful to encourage diversity in gender, race, whatever.  But we can't overtly be seeking diverse candidates.  We must submit the most qualified people regardless of race, gender, creed, sexual orientation, etc., etc.

Is there anything that you are doing or plan to do in order to encourage more women to be in the game industry?

Robin: Encouraging women to be in the game industry means encouraging women to play video games.  I'm involved with the Austin Independent School District and with the Austin Community College.  I have participated in  Breaking Into Games conferences around the country.  These are intended for all newcomers, men and women.  We're also in the process of conducting a survey to learn more about hiring trends and growth expectations for female employees.  We'll be asking the same kinds of questions in our survey of our client companies and companies all around the industry.  We hope this data will be encouraging to women who are interested in breaking into the industry and women who are already working in the industry.

Going back to what it is that you do, who is Mary-Margaret.com intended for?  I've read testimonials from game developers to business professionals and even journalists.  Have you helped all of them find work?

Mary Margaret: We have testimonials from people on our Web site where either they worked with us because they're a candidate, or they've worked with us because they're a client, or we have a professional affiliation with them.   

What we do and who we're intended for: the client companies in entertainment software contact us and let us know that they have open positions they're trying to fill.  [It could be] VP of Marketing, Senior Software Engineer, or a 3D Artist.  Quite frequently they'll come to us needing to fill an entire team.  That's the client side.

On the candidate side we're looking for experienced, qualified people that are ready for their next career move.  That's who the company wants to see from us.  We are unable to place people who don't have a significant amount of experience or don't have the skill set or required background for the position we're trying to fill.  So we're looking for the experienced professional on the candidate side.

So let's say I'm a programmer and I'm coming to you looking to be hired.  How many years experience do I need?

Mary Margaret: I would say a minimum of 3-5 years of experience.  Some clients are very particular.  If they're trying to fill an engineering position on a console game in a particular genre, they want someone with several years of experience, or two or three published titles on that console in that genre.
 

Robin: …Which as you can image is difficult to find for the client.  Clients come to us when they have a hard to fill position.  We work very hard to find the people they need through a variety of means.  Our large database and personal network help us fill these positions.

In general we see the most movement [in programming]. 

 Unfortunately, it's very difficult to break into the game industry.  As an entry-level programmer or artist you basically have to show that you can do the work.  And the only way to do that is to get out and work on your own game stuff, or do mods, or make demos, whatever.  You have to be able to show that you can do the work and that you can qualify for the entry-level position.
 

Mary Margaret: …And network to get the job.
 

Robin: It's very important to be in the right place at the right time with the right skill set and know the right people.  It takes a lot of work.  You can't just fall into a game company job.  Certainly not anymore.

For our readers who may not be familiar with this kind of thing, what does it mean to network, what does it involve?

Mary Margaret: Somebody who's very serious about working in the industry will attend conferences so that they can meet industry professionals and create relationships.  Face-to-face networking is very important.  Relationships can also be created through e-mail and through phone conversations.  That kind of networking is useful, but I think the face-to-face networking is pretty valuable.
 

Robin: Say for instance that you're a college student or even a high school student, someone who's a gaming enthusiast, someone who's a big player, who lives in a particular geographic area.  Let's say the Washington, DC area.  There's a large game development community in the Washington, DC area and there have been a lot of game development studios there.  First of all it's a great place to be.  If you're a student or somebody already in one of these centers of game development, such as DC, Boston, North Carolina, Montreal, Toronto, Austin, Southern California, Northern California or Seattle, you have an advantage. 

Being in any of these geographical areas [gives] you a leg up.  So, do your homework, go online, and find the companies that are in your local geographical area.  Go to the companies’ web sites, learn about their products, find out what their product lines are.  Play their games.  Participate in online discussions, contribute to the forums.  Be opinionated and passionate about the titles.  That's a good way to meet developers because the developers go and hang out in these online conference areas and forums as well.  You have to be passionate about the same things they are, which is the games they're making.

What if you don't live in an appropriate area to get a game job?  Should you be prepared to relocate very quickly?

Robin: Yeah.  That's pretty much a requirement.  As a newcomer, or as a career game industry person you have to have it in your head, "Okay, If I'm going to continue my game industry career, I've got to think about the possibility of relocating."

If you're not in one of those areas and you're looking to break in, that's the beauty of the Internet.  You can still follow up on all the things I just mentioned and do all those things from your home, and be just as active in the game forums for companies all over the country and continue to build your network.
 

Is there such a thing as a freelance game developer?
 

Robin: Sure, but those are people who have usually been in the industry for many, many years. You need to have a long history in games to be a successful freelance game developer. 

Mary Margaret: We rarely get openings from our clients where a freelance game developer can work offsite.  So it's still very important for them to be onsite even if they're working freelance.

You mentioned before that people are always looking to hire programmers.  Is that the one you've seen the most growth with?

Mary Margaret: I wouldn't say I've seen the most growth in positions in programming.  I think that programmers have been and will continue to be the highest demand.

Robin: I think the area where I've seen the most growth is in the variety of types of artists that are being used on these titles.  It used to be a game company would hire a handful of artists, and all of those artists would be responsible for all the different kinds of art. 

In my opinion, things are really starting to become more focused.  Each different discipline has a much stronger focus: high poly modelling, low poly modelling.  It's not necessarily the same person anymore who's going to be doing the concept sketch and then building the 3D model, and then doing the texture map and then applying the texture map.  And a totally different person is going to be putting the animation rig to that model and then animating that model.  That could now be seven different people, where before it may have just been one person.

That's not to say that all those skills aren't necessary.  Many smaller studios have one person that has all of those skills and does all of those jobs.  Larger studios have a tendency now to break that down to either three or even five different positions.

Have any game-related jobs experienced a decline or deficit in growth?

Mary Margaret: I don't think so.  I think that the industry has done nothing but grow.  The industry's going to do nothing but continue to grow.

Robin: There are a certain number of jobs that have not seen a lot of turn-over.  And by that I mean you have one or two or three of these guys in a whole studio and they don't change jobs that often. You get one audio director and he or she hires a small audio staff.  Those people stick around, so you don't see many openings for audio people.  You don't see many openings for IT people, because it’s a small staff and they don’t turn over often.

Mary Margaret: But I don't think anything has declined.

Robin: It's just growing.

I keep reading about game cancellations and the elimination of jobs...  Who is this hurting the most?

Mary Margaret: It's hard to say who it's hurting the most.  The easy answer is that it's hurting everybody.  There are quite a few companies in our industry that are notorious for doing annual layoffs.  It's a combination of things.  It's not taking the time to properly record employment issues so they can actually fire someone who's not performing well.  Instead of bothering to do that they just lump them into their layoffs.  That's part of it.

The other part of it is a company will decide to go in a new direction.  Sometimes companies will decide to go in a new direction, cancel three projects, and let everyone go from those three projects because they don't have the exact skill set that's needed for the three projects they're going to ramp up.  So they'll let 25 people go and then turn around and hire 30 people.

Robin: I think the people who get hurt by these layoffs are the people who aren't high performers anyway.  The company, rather than telling the employee,”You're not performing very well, we want you to improve in these areas, we think you have promise,” will just lay them off with no criticism.  Those people get hurt by just being laid off rather than having the proper HR procedures applied to their cases so they can learn and see what they're doing wrong.  The people that get laid off with no explanation are not given the opportunity to grow.

Mary Margaret: Poor performers are still a small part of who's getting laid off. The majority of people being laid off don't fit into what the company thinks they need for the new direction they are taking. So we are seeing more job movement in the average person's resume. Even a solid performer.

The other side of this problem is the hiring manager who asks, "Why has this person only been at the last three companies for two years each?  Why isn't there more longevity?"  Well, there isn't more longevity because they're getting laid off.  Hiring managers don't seem to look at whether a candidate has completed their project before moving on.  They seem to be more concerned with actual years with the company.  When hiring managers won't consider a strong candidate who has completed projects before moving on or been laid off because of restructuring, they are only shrinking their own pool of eligible candidates. 

Until companies stop thinking about the third guy in the cube on the right as their "Maya person" we will continue to see mass layoffs.  Hiring managers have always been too intent on hiring somebody who has the exact genre or skill set that they're looking for instead of keeping the perfectly functioning, committed employee that they have on board, and either giving them the opportunity to train in a new skill or work on a new genre.  Until that happens, or until, with regard to employment, this becomes a project-driven business we will continue to see annual mass layoffs.  In a project-driven business, somebody who has moved through several companies in a five or six year period will not seem unusual.

Thanks guys for your comments and the in-depth industry information.

For more information on Mary-Margaret.com, you know what to click.

GZ Spotlight: Women in Gaming – Previous Interviews 

Sheri Graner Ray (Game Designer, Sony Online Entertainment) 

Ellen Beeman (Live Team Producer, The Matrix Online) 

Laura Fryer (Director of the Xbox Advanced Technology Group) 

Mia Consalvo (Assistant Professor, Researcher of Cheating In Games) 

Kathy Schoback (VP of Content Strategy, Infinium Labs)